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>3 days and 3 nights

>How do we resolve this phrase with the other verses we have examined?

It is an idiom.

This may sound like an unusual position for a young earth creationist. However my hermeneutic seeks to understand Scripture in a straightforward manner which means that I am not a literalist or a symbolist but rather try to interpret what the passage is actually saying in context. The relevant passages are:

Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered him, saying, “Teacher, we wish to see a sign from you.” But he answered them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For just as Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth. The men of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here. (Mat 12:38-41)

An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.” So he left them and departed. (Mat 16:4)

And the LORD appointed a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish 3 days and 3 nights. (Jon 1:17)

Looking at the 2 passages in Matthew it is clear that the sign of Jesus’ Messiahhood parallels the sign of Jonah. And Jesus condemns them for failing to recognise him noting that the Ninevites repented at the message of a lesser person. This suggests that the sign of Jonah was that he had been swallowed by a great sea creature yet lived to speak of it. It is as if Jonah had come back from the dead and indeed Jonah uses the metaphor of Sheol (Hades) for his predicament.

“I called out to the LORD, out of my distress,/
and he answered me;/
out of the belly of Sheol I cried,/
and you heard my voice. (Jon 2:2)

So the focus of the argument is that Jesus will parallel Jonah’s experience which is the sign. And they should repent as Jesus is greater than Jonah. The passage in Jonah says 3 days and 3 nights so Jesus quotes this and then applies it to himself.

The days and nights are literal, the association with day and night means the day is literal and the association with a number means the days are literal, but the phrase can encompass less than a whole day. We have:

  • 1 day(time) and 1 night meaning 1 (revolution) day (or part thereof)
  • 2 day(time)s and 2 nights meaning 2 (revolution) days (or part thereof)
  • 3 day(time)s and 3 nights meaning 3 (revolution) days (or part thereof)

The phrase is “day and night” with the number mentioned twice for emphasis.

Consider the phrase:

For in 7 days I will send rain on the earth 40 days and 40 nights,… (Gen 7:4)

The emphasis is not on the fact it will rain for precisely 960 hours. It is on the continuous nature. The 7 refers to revolutional days, the 40 refers to daytime days. God could say, “…I will send rain on the earth 40 (revolutional) days,…” it means the same thing. But by saying day and night it is saying that the rain will come continually—even during the nighttime!

The other data we have previously examined states that Jesus was raised on the 3rd day with specific details that

  • Jesus died on Preparation day (1st day)
  • which was followed by the Sabbath day—7th weekday (2nd day)
  • then he rose on the following day—1st weekday (3rd day)

Combining this with an understanding that “x days and x nights” is an idiom meaning x revolutional days (or part thereof) with emphasis on daytime and nighttime, we see that all the texts are compatible and justice is done to every biblical, chronological record of the crucifixion.

Categories: chronology, crucifixion, Easter
  1. Mark Call
    2008 March 24 at 06:06

    Sorry, bethyada, but gotta disagree on this one. See Michael Rood’s work for a definitive treatment, among many others.
    The bottom line is that there are TWO Sabbaths during the week of Pesach, or Passover — the regular, weekly seventh day Sabbath, and the High Sabbath (John makes this clear as well) which fell on Thursday during the week of His execution.
    He was tried on a Wednesday (early), and died at 3 PM that afternoon, and was entombed before dark, which was the ‘dawning’ of the High Sabbath, the day we call Thursday.
    Wednesday NIGHT, Thursday NIGHT, Friday NIGHT are three nights; ThursDAY, FriDAY, and Sabbath DAY are three days – exactly as He said.
    When the women came to the tomb “after the Sabbath” – meaning sometime after dark on “Saturn’s day” evening or later in current parlance – He was already Risen.
    The Feast of First Fruits – of which He not only referenced to the women, but WAS, followed, and — in spite of being neglected by the Church — is another perfect symbol of what He is and accomplished.
    You don’t have to make excuses for Scripture. His Word is True.

  2. Mark Call
    2008 March 24 at 06:11

    I see after looking further down your posts that you have referenced some of this; excellent, although I haven’t read to the end yet. All I would add initially is that “first of the Sabbaths” I have generally heard taught as the “counting of the Omer”; at least in one place a reference to the seven weekly Sabbaths which follow Pesach and lead to Shavuot, or “pentecost”.
    IOW, “First Fruits” is the first of the Sabbaths.

  3. 2008 March 25 at 03:57

    I am willing to look at Michael Rood’s work, do you have a link?
    I am willing to deny traditional understandings of ideas. I don’t buy Ur being in the Persian Gulf, I deny the biblical Hittites are Anatolian, I think the Babylonian/ Persian connection needs modifying. I am just not convinced with the reconstructed view of the crucifixion dates.
    I deny that I am making excuses for Scripture, I recognise that there are idioms in languages.
    The 6 days of creation are all 24-hours days because of the context, but when it says “In the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens” (Gen 2) the word “day” is not a 24 hour period, it means “when.”
    I could conceive that 3 days and 3 nights means 72 hours but given all the other Scriptures that I identified I find this contradicts them. And I have no problem reading it as an idiom. However if we insist it is literal all the other passages still need to be explained. If the result is torturing all the other passages just to make an idiom literal I am not convinced.

  4. Starwind
    2008 March 25 at 18:42

    Whew! You’ve been busy.
    It’ll take me awhile to digest your recent posts, but I’ll work through them and comment pro and con as I’m able.

  5. 2008 March 27 at 00:43

    bethyada –
    Here is the text of one article that I saw by a Baptist pastor a couple of years back, which adds at least one other point while demonstrating that at least some of the ‘mainstream’ gets it. ;)
    I would note that there are still a few items in here I consider possibly in error, but it is a good piece nevertheless.
    – Mark
    Is it “Palm Sunday, Good Friday and Easter Sunday?”
    Or, Palm Friday, Good Wednesday and Easter Saturday?”
    by Pastor Art Kohl
    March 15, 2005
    To establish the biblical truth we must work backwards:
    I. Christ Rose From The Grave Upon The First Day Of The Week.
    Matthew 28:1, “In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.”
    Mark 16:2, “And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.”
    Luke 24:1, “Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.”
    John 20:1, “The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.”
    Notice in Bible stories that Christ was already risen from the dead when the women got there. When did they get there?: “…as it began to dawn,” “very early in the morning,” “when it was yet dark,” “at the rising of the sun.”
    The ladies got to the grave when it was dark and the day was just starting to break. That is early. Probably about 6:00 AM.
    What did they find? All four accounts tell us they found an empty tomb. Jesus was gone, even before the stone was rolled away. (Matthew 28:1-6).
    When did Jesus rise from the dead? The Bible tells us so as to leave no doubt. Let’s repeat Mark 16:9, “Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.” The answer: “Early the first day of the week.” The Jewish day began at 6 PM in the evening. From 6 PM Saturday to 6 PM Sunday is considered by the Jews as the first day of the week. Therefore Jesus was probably alive for 12 hours before Mary Magdalene saw Him. He had probably been alive for almost 24 hours before the disciples saw Him. John 20:19, “Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.” Thus, Christ most surely arose sometime late Saturday evening, the beginning of the Jew’s “first day of the week.” Mary Magdalene and the disciples saw Him during the hours we Americans call Sunday, but He probably arose during the time we call Saturday evening.

  6. 2008 March 27 at 00:45

    II. Thus, Christ died on the Cross on Wednesday Afternoon.

    The following are 20 verses of scripture which state that Christ would be dead for three days. The first of the twenty also states that it will be three nights also. Thus three-twenty four hour periods:
    Matthew 12:40, “For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” (compare Jonah 1:17)
    Matthew 16:21 “From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.”
    Matthew 17:23, “And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry.”
    Matthew 20:19, “And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify [him]: and the third day he shall rise again.”
    Matthew 26:61, “And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.”
    Matthew 27:40, “And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.”
    Matthew 27:63, “Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.”
    Matthew 27:64, “Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.”
    Mark 8:31, “And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.”
    Mark 9:31, “For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.”
    Mark 10:34, “And they shall mock him, and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again.”
    Mark 14:58, “We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.”
    Mark 15:29, “And they that passed by railed on him, wagging their heads, and saying, Ah, thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days,”
    Luke 9:22, “Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.”
    Luke 18:33, “And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.”

  7. 2008 March 27 at 00:46

    Luke 24:7, “Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.”
    Luke 24:21, “But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.”
    Luke 24:46, “And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:”
    John 2:19,21, “Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. But he spake of the temple of his body.”
    Acts 10:40, “Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;”
    The scriptures tell us that God cannot lie (Titus 1:2) and that it is impossible that God should lie (Hebrews 6:18). The case then should be settled. If Christ died at 3 PM on a Friday and was placed in the tomb by 6 PM on Friday, then three days and three nights later would place the Resurrection of Christ after 6 PM on Monday. But, as we have seen, the scriptures clearly teach that He rose early the first day of the week (Saturday-Sunday). Which will you believe? The scriptures or traditions of religions? Colossians 2:8 warns, “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.”
    Why do some say “Good Friday” then? What is their argument? Their argument is that the next day was the Sabbath, when the truth is, that it was a Sabbath.

  8. 2008 March 27 at 00:47

    The Sabbath starts on Friday at 6 PM and ends at 6 PM on Saturday every week. It was a Sabbath day of rest for all Jews. The proponents of “Good Friday” use this argument based on the following scriptures to say Friday rather than Wednesday:
    Mark 15:42-46, “And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus. And Pilate marvelled if he were already dead: and calling unto him the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead. And when he knew it of the centurion, he gave the body to Joseph. And he bought fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre.”
    Luke 23:50-56, “And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counsellor; and he was a good man, and a just: The same had not consented to the counsel and deed of them; he was of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for the kingdom of God. This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid. And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.”
    It is important to note here that although every Saturday was a Sabbath, there were other Sabbaths during the year that fell on different days of the week, but the same Jewish law applied to those sabbaths also (no traveling, no fires, no working). If those sabbaths fell on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, etc. the same rules applied.
    Let’s illustrate: In America we used to call every Sunday, “the Lord’s Day.” It was a holiday. We used to have blue laws so it would remain a holiday. But there were other days that were holidays such as Christmas. Christmas is always December 25 no matter what day it falls on – Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, etc. Several Mondays are designated as holidays each year.
    The Sabbath was the same every Saturday, but also there were other Sabbaths in the Jewish calendar, no matter what day they fell on, such as the “Feast of the Passover.” These Sabbaths were called “High Days.” With that thought in mind, please consider John 19:31, “The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, for that sabbath day was an high day, besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.”

  9. 2008 March 27 at 00:48

    By “high day” it means that it was not a regular Sabbath day, but one higher than the rest. The Greek word for “high” means “greater, exceeding, mighty.”
    Now we are told that this high day Sabbath had to do with the feast of the Passover. With that in mind, consider these scriptures:
    Matthew 26:2, “Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.”
    Mark 14:2, “But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar of the people.”
    Mark 14:12, “And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?”
    Luke 22:1-2, “Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover. And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.”
    Luke 22:7, “Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.”
    Luke 22:15, “And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:”
    John 13:1, “Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.”
    John 18:39, “But ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover: will ye therefore that I release unto you the King of the Jews?”
    John 19:14, “And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!”
    1 Corinthians 5:7, “Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:”
    The Passover lamb was always sacrificed on the 14th day of Nisan. Nisan is the first month of the Hebrew calendar. There is a difference between the weekly Sabbath (Saturday) and the Passover Sabbath. The Passover Sabbath always followed the killing of the Passover lamb, no matter what day of the week the killing of the Passover Lamb occurred on. (Exodus 12:16; Leviticus 23:7; Numbers 28:16-18). The Passover Sabbath was always the 15th day of Nisan.
    The Bible states that Christ died exactly three days and three nights before the first day of the week. Figuring in the Passover Sabbath, He must have died on a Wednesday at about 3 PM and been put in the grave of Joseph of Arimethaea before 6 PM. Common sense and scripture can only come to this conclusion. Both Thursday and Saturday of that particular week, that particular year, were Sabbaths.
    III. Palm Sunday Then Must Have Really Been Palm Friday.
    Jesus arrived at Bethany six days before the Passover. That would be thus the Thursday before His crucifixion. John 12:1 states it this way, “Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.”

  10. 2008 March 27 at 00:50

    Then on “the next day” we read the history of the Triumphant entry of Christ into Jerusalem – John 12:12-13, “On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.” Thus Palm Sunday should really be Palm Friday.
    IV. Conclusion:
    The believer cannot believe in “Good Friday” for two outstanding reasons:
    1. God would have been in error 20 times when He recorded in His word that His Son would be in the grave for three days! How could we then trust in the rest of His word.
    2. Six days before “Good Friday” would have been Saturday. That’s when Christ was traveling to Bethany (John 12:1). It was a violation of the law for a Jew to travel on Saturday, thus Jesus and many other Jews (John 12:9) would have violated the law. Violation of the law is transgression, and transgression is sin, (1 John 3:4). Thus we cannot believe in Good Friday for Jesus never sinned. Jesus traveled to Bethany on Thursday of that week, and rode into Jerusalem on Friday. He was crucified the next Wednesday and rose again on Sunday (late Saturday night).
    Copyright © 2005
    Permission granted to freely copy.
    Scripture verses are from the King James Holy Bible.
    This Site Maintained By Frank Broughton – Copyright © 1997-2006 Faith Bible Baptist Church, Inc.
    Ouch. That took a few more sections than I anticipated…

  11. 2008 March 28 at 04:52

    Ouch. That took a few more sections than I anticipated…
    Yeah! I have the free Haloscan option so there is a limit to about 3000 letters I think. I still prefer it to blogger’s commenting system but it does limit extensive responses.
    I understand Art Kohl’s position. It is not that his position is indefensible based on the passages he has used, it is rather the passages that he has not mentioned that cause concern.
    Basically my thoughts are: A Friday thru Sunday and Wednesday thru Sunday options have been proposed. The second option is consistent with some of the data, the first is consistent with all of the data. The interpretation which is consistent with every verse is to be preferred.
    I am still to be convinced about these extra Sabbaths as well.
    I will try and post something addressing the issues raised by you and Starwind.

  12. 2008 March 29 at 23:24

    A Friday thru Sunday and Wednesday thru Sunday options have been proposed. The second option is consistent with some of the data, the first is consistent with all of the data. [sic] The interpretation which is consistent with every verse is to be preferred.
    Frankly, bethyada, this blows me away.
    Either you got the two proposals reversed, or something is horribly wrong.
    “Good Friday” is not merely inconsisent with the data, it is not credible.

  13. 2008 March 31 at 10:18

    Mark Call, how does this blow you away? My several posts have explained my position. All of data save the phrase “3 days and 3 nights” should be consistent with a Friday crucifixion even by you.
    I see our difference being on the meaning of that phrase. Save that phrase, what specific passages prevent a Friday crucifixion being viable?
    I will post my objections to a Wednesday crucifixion later.

  14. Mark Call
    2008 March 31 at 15:37

    It’s just plainly not consistent with “ALL the data”, bethyada! Not only with three days “AND” three nights – although that would be sufficient. (And, indeed, it IS a major stumbling block, as my own testimony and that of MANY others that I know confirm.)
    Furthermore, it is simply not consistent with the volumes of evidence (such as the historic +/- 30 years of High Holy Dates, other correlated events, etc – only referenced in these threads indirectly) and the understanding of the Hebrew (God’s ;) time clock. Most importantly, it is NOT consistent with His character to lie, or fudge. He gave us the prophets, and His Word, for very specific reasons.
    [Even the correct phase of the moon wasn’t close to “Easter” this year!]
    Your analysis has generally been quite specific and precise, bethyada; I have seen you take ‘unconventional’ positions before, but consistent with the Biblical evidence based on a careful study. Even with the (I believe exceptionally disingenuous) “‘part of a day’ counts” cop-out, Friday dusk to Saturday/Sabbath dusk — which is all that a careful reading allows without question — is much closer to ONE full day than three!
    Why not simply accept the reading that is UTTERLY consistent — that our Savior did EXACTLY and PRECISELY what SAID He would?

  15. Starwind
    2008 April 1 at 01:02

    Your elipsis glossed over some details:

    When the Sabbath was past,… very early on the 1st day of the week,… (Mar 16:1-2)

    Would you please explicate on what times and days in your chronology these two passages fall?

    Mar 16:1 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, so that they might come and anoint Him.

    [in your view, on what day at roughly what time did the women buy spices?]

    Mar 16:2 Very early on the first day of the week, they *came to the tomb when the sun had risen.

    Also, if Sunday is “after 3 days”, then Saturday would be “after 2 days” and Friday would be “after 1 day”, hence Thursday would be day zero, would it not?
    Likewise, re:
    Luk 24:21 “But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this, it is the third day since these things happened.
    If Sunday is the “3rd day since these things”, thus Saturday is the 2nd day since, Friday the 1st day since (or day after), hence Thursday is the “day of these things”, no?

  16. 2008 April 2 at 09:48

    Mark Call It’s just plainly not consistent with “ALL the data”, bethyada!
    Perhaps I should have written all the textual data.
    Other than the phrase “3 days and 3 nights,” what verses specifically make a Friday crucifixion non-viable?
    Claiming other Sabbaths (holy convocations) may partially salvage the Wednesday view but it does not contradict the Friday view which can validly claim the Sabbath mentioned is the 7th day.

  17. 2008 April 2 at 10:09

    Starwind Your elipsis glossed over some details:
    Possibly, thought I quote it in full in the earlier post: Resurrection accounts
    But to answer your question (which is a valid claim) I would suggest that they bought them either after sundown on Saturday on the 1st day of the week or just prior to going to the tomb. If there was preparation of the spices to be done (I don’t know) then buying them after sundown on Saturday would give them time to do some preparation that evening.
    If we make the Thursday a special Sabbath and they buy the spices on the Friday, why not go to the tomb that same day?
    If Sunday is the “3rd day since these things”, thus Saturday is the 2nd day since, Friday the 1st day since (or day after), hence Thursday is the “day of these things”, no?
    I follow your reasoning but I am not certain the Jews did. Days can be counted inclusively and exclusively which means though your solution is possible, it is also reasonable to say that Friday is day 1 and day 0 is not a consideration.
    Event: this happened today
    Day after event: It is the 2nd day since the event happened.
    This is a legitimate way of reckoning.
    In the chronology of the Hebrew kings we have ascension years and non ascension years used. Thus, theoretically, a king could rule for less than 1 year but because the period overlapped the New Year he is ascribed 2 years.
    We see this comparing Luke 8:28 with Matthew 17:1.

  18. Mark Call
    2008 April 2 at 15:07

    If we make the Thursday a special Sabbath and they buy the spices on the Friday, why not go to the tomb that same day?
    Since I’m a bit pressed for time currently, I’ll take just the easy one for now (your textual distinction is interesting, but ultimately superfluous, bethyada – it’s an infinite regression. The answer MUST be in a Hebraic context – which Yeshua spoke within, and the disciples were).
    There was a guard, clearly referenced in the text, and the women also almost certainly knew He had said the “three days and three nights” thing.
    I think they knew when to come — even if they weren’t sure exactly what to expect.
    There is nothing inconsistent with their having planned on coming after the WEEKLY Sabbath.

  19. 2008 April 2 at 18:24

    Other than the phrase “3 days and 3 nights,” what verses specifically make a Friday crucifixion non-viable?
    Without attempting a huge list, bethyada, I’d answer that (and at least partially at the risk of repetition ;) two different ways:
    – Every shorthand reference to “3 days” (and a shorthand interpretation would thus have to note, again, that no matter how you count a ‘day’, there’s only one full ‘day’ in the Official Story).
    – The whole Torah, and many prophetic stories (including, of course, Jonah).
    The story of PERFECT fulfillment of the Pesach is so amazing, so undeniable (go see a Messianic Passover Seder this year – — the multiple messages of His mission in there will astound you! Or see the Nick Mancuso movie, The Messiah for an excellent, but abbreviated for mass appeal, introduction) that anything less is simply unsatisfying.
    The True Story is simply AMAZING, bethyada – we don’t have to make excuses for Him in order to get the paganized lie to fit! It sounds a bit like something from II Timothy 3 – “Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.“.

  20. 2008 April 3 at 10:48

    Mark Call There was a guard, clearly referenced in the text, and the women also almost certainly knew He had said the “three days and three nights” thing. I think they knew when to come — even if they weren’t sure exactly what to expect.
    Yet despite Jesus telling the 12 (though some of the others could have known) about the 3 days repeatedly, Scripture makes it clear that they did not understand him. The resurrection still took them by surprise. So the women were not expecting him to rise. They went to anoint because that was usual practice and because there was not enough time of the day of crucifixion. There is no reason not to go on Friday, guard or no guard.
    bethyada Other than the phrase “3 days and 3 nights,” what verses specifically make a Friday crucifixion non-viable?
    Mark Call Without attempting a huge list…
    I agree that in some situations the big picture of Scripture is important and single passages can be dissected to say something that contradicts the grander scheme. However I am unable to respond to critiques unless there is some substantive argument with which to interact.
    My comment about textual data was clarifying what I meant by the word “data” in the context. I don’t doubt that extra-biblical material can be useful, I was just not discussing this material in these posts.
    I dispute that the mention of 3 days is shorthand for 3 days and 3 nights (ie 72 hours) every time it appears. Note that some passages state “on the 3rd day.” Also see the comparison I mentioned between Luke 8:28 and Matthew 17:1.
    I see nothing in a Friday crucifixion being pagan. Whether or not “Easter” is a pagan term or a Christianised pagan concept has little to do with which day Jesus was put to death on. We both see his death connected to the Passover whatever the exact number of hours were spent in the tomb.

  21. 2008 April 3 at 16:22

    I’ll start by correcting the impression that ‘three days’ is shorthand for His specific prophetic reference to Jonah; that was not my point or concern. Instead, I note again that Friday dusk to Sunday before dawn – by ANY reading – cannot be “three days” without significant twisting. (I’d find “a thousand years” just as palatable. ;)
    I don’t have a strong opinion on the guard issue; Scripture is silent. But I do think, in total, the Friday shopping trip for spices is far more believable than the Friday crucifixion.
    …in some situations the big picture of Scripture is important…
    Agreed, bethyada. I contend that the entirely of Torah, and the Prophets as well, point to the Kinsman-Redeemer, the “One greater” than Moses, Meshiach ben Yosef, “God will provide Himself, a Lamb”. He fulfilled PERFECTLY all of the Spring Feasts of God, in EVERY detail, while “declaring” His plan through His prophets, and STILL besting the efforts of the Adversary.
    I’ve tried to be clear about why this is such an important distinction to me; the Friday distortion was a stumbling block, and it simultaneously “denies the power” of God’s real plan and His perfect fulfillment, as well as (at least!) opening the door for the pagan messiah-replacements. (Mithra, sol invictus and his sun-god day, Tammuz and the mother/son mythology, and the legion of bunnies, eggs, and vagina flowers, to name only a few ;)
    I’ve quoted on VP some of the text from Deut. 12, 7, 13 and other places about just how SERIOUS God is about “mixing” His worship with that of the “inhabitants of the land” that He vomited out. (And I’ve even illustrated with the old joke: What do you get when you mix 8 gallons of chocolate ice cream with 2 gallons of sh-t? Answer: 10 gallons of sh-t!)
    There’s a reason He uses the “idolatry == adultery” model; even a little adultery is too much.
    And lastly, don’t forget one additional lesson of His perfect fulfillment, Wednesday dusk to Sabbath dusk, followed by becoming First Fruits on the day following His resurrection:
    Pay SPECIAL attention to the Fall Feasts of God, YET to be fulfilled!
    It starts with a Trumpet, a time for Atonement, and a week in the wilderness dwelling in tents (“booths”, sukkot, mangers even) – followed by the most joyous wedding feast ever seen on earth.
    He gave us those very specific models, and told us to keep them ‘forever’, for a reason.

  22. Starwind
    2008 April 3 at 20:45

    Mark Call:
    And I’ve even illustrated [ how SERIOUS God is about “mixing” His worship with that of the “inhabitants of the land” that He vomited out.] with the old joke: What do you get when you mix 8 gallons of chocolate ice cream with 2 gallons of sh-t? Answer: 10 gallons of sh-t!
    lol – probably the first time I’ve ever empathized with that point beyond mere intellectual assent. I may borrow that :)

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